EO Responds To Emails
08-10-2008
(EMAIL) Recently I was searching for information to share with a seventy year old man who has been raised, and raised his children as catholics. His children were saved as adults, and have tried to teach him the message of salvation. He does not want to leave the catholic church. I was interested when I began to read your web page entitled \“An open chriatian response to a person claiming to be a \“born again catholic\”\”.
I was very disturbed by the phrase \“he must leave such an idolatrous system to stay saved\” The Bible says in John 10:28 \“and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.\”
My parents were smokers before they were saved. They smoked for another thirty years before they quit. There is no doubt that their smoking was a sin. There is also no doubt theat they have been saved all that time. They were changed to be like God one glory at a time. (2 corinthians 3:18) I appreciate the work you do in your mission. Please remember that Catholics have been lied to all their lives. Please don\’t confuse them with more legalism. Ephesians 2:8
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
It is good to read that you know about the false doctrines in Catholicism. However, your embraced view of the believer’s security (eternal security) is something that needs to change. It is adversely affecting your view of sin and salvation.
Because of that doctrine you think there are Christian idolaters (Christian drunks, Christian adulterers, Christian criminals, etc). You cited a passage (John 10:28) that is typically given for the backslider to think he has retained his salvation in unrepentant sin, but that is taking that verse out of context. John 10:28 can ONLY properly refer to those described in v. 27, which excludes the idolaters, drunks, sexually immoral, etc. Please make a note of this. One must CONTINUE TO FOLLOW Jesus to have John 10:28 apply to him.
You are also basing your statement that there is no doubt your smoking parents were saved during the time they were still smoking (30 years) on your doctrine of eternal security. When one gets saved he is set free from sin’s addictions, including smoking. Just because they finally stopped smoking doesn’t mean 2 Cor. 3:18 applies to their case. Many non-Christians also stop smoking.
We believe that we are saved by grace (Eph. 2:8,9) but we can fall from grace (Gal. 5:2-4). We are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1) but our faith can become shipwrecked (1 Tim. 1:19,20) and cease to exist (Lk. 8:13; Rom. 11:19-23). We are not under the law (Rom. 6:14,15) but if you live according to the sinful nature you will die (Rom. 8:13). Paul taught against legalism (Gal. 5:3,4) but he also taught that no immoral, impure or greedy person has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God (Eph. 5:5-7). We are not saved by works (Eph. 2:8,9) but to reap eternal life and not destruction you must sow to please the Spirit and not the sinful nature (Gal. 6:8,9). God is faithful to us (1 Jn. 1:9; 1 Cor. 10:13) but we must be faithful to him to the very end of our lives to escape the lake of fire or second death (Rev. 2:10,11). God surely loves us (Jn. 3:16; Mk. 10:21; Rom. 8:35-39) but those who inherit the kingdom of God love God (Jam 2:5; 1 Cor. 2:9) and to love God means to obey his commands (Jn. 14:15; 1 Jn. 5:3). We have freedom in Christ (Gal. 5:1) but this freedom is not to indulge the sinful nature (Gal. 5:13; 1 Pet 2:16).
Please consider getting our 801 page book refuting eternal security entitled, “The Believer’s Conditional Security.” There is MUCH in it that can help you better understand this salvation related subject. http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/whatsnew.htm
This book is the most exhaustive and comprehensive refutation to eternal security ever written.
Remember Gal. 6:8,9 is a SALVATION passage not a rewards passage. GOD BLESS YOU.
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(EMAIL) best regards from OSAS-germany and sorry for my bad english. Personal I never had believed in OSAS or have to conceive to such a curious thinking. OSAS, Calvin, Darby, Augustin ... were not in my perceptions. Then I went into a german "biblical" "cummunity" - not the bad one like the pseudo-charismatic. But this christian community was spiritual dead and other are dead too although they proclaim they are so biblical. They seam to have the maxime like Prof. Dr. Luther: “To be a sinner and saint in the same time”. Sanctification was only a theoretical think, an option - not more. Nice to teach about (like Spurgeon) but if not then not. Here I could see the deadly consequence from OSAS. There was no love to Jesus and the Father, no love at all only feigned love and a deep darkness in the prayer meetings.
Later after I have to exit this graveyard I discovered the existence of OSAS. I was shocked that (almost) ALL communities are teaching OSAS - even the "biblical" communities. No wonder, that they are all dead. (Some do not teach OSAS but they often have other big false teachings). And allmost all "big big" names like Spurgeon,Luther, Watchman Nee,Dave Hunt,John MacArthur... are teaching this demonic teaching too - hey, whats going on here - wake me up.
If OSAS is so far and deep widespread, then the whole (almost) "christianity" is a big fraud and some are on the way to hell and not on the way to heaven. This OSAS-Teacher are in my eyes spiritual murder, they lead precious souls eternaly to hell. This is a HORRIBLE condition.
I think OSAS is primary a spiritual problem and we have to fight at first with HIS spiritual weapons. The creator of OSAS was Satan (Gen 3,4). And our fight IS "not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph 6,12) We must lead the twoedged(!) sword of God (Heb 4,12) by always praying (Eph 4,18) that God will destroy OSAS through the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit will open the mind of the prisoners and to close the mouths of the false prophets. I think its not a intellectual problem but a spuritual disease. But we have our lovingly Father, HE the Almighty (Gen 1,17), on our side - even if we are only 7000 (1.Ki 19,18) HE and his HOLY word "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"(2.Cor 10,5) So let us lead his two edged sword through prayer and through HIS Spirit of truth (John 14,17) against OSAS and other demonic teaching TO bring HIM ALL honour and thanks.
"Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen" (Rev 7,12) best regards
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
Basically what you described regarding the church problems in Germany also holds true in the USA and elsewhere. It is the perverted “grace” message of OSAS that is primarily responsible for this HORRIBLE condition. You are also right about the eternal security teachers being spiritual murderers. In fact, the big name once saved always saved teachers are really spiritual serial murderers who have been used to cause the spiritual destruction of multitudes.
Please consider getting our books refuting eternal security. They are loaded with important material to help you help others when you talk to them in the future about this.
Remember Gal. 6:8,9 is a salvation passage not a rewards passage like they say.
GOD BLESS YOU. Rev. 2:10,11.
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(EMAIL) You are saying that if I turn my back on God, I will lose my salvation? Can I get it back? I know the end is coming and I don\’t want to to die without salvation. I am in agreement with you about post tribulation. I feel most Christians here in America will either be slaughtered or die in natural disasters. I grew up in a Baptist church under the OSAS, Calvinist doctrine. But I have fallen away. Twice. To follow my own lusts. Now, I don\’t want to do that. I want to follow Jesus. Will he take me back? What is your view on Hebrews 6: 4 - 6? How do I live a holy life in an unholy world? I am interested in emailing you more.
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’
ALL people who turn from Jesus to sin will be damned unless they repent and come back to God as the prodigal did (humbly to serve Him). Besides the prodigal (Luke 15:24,32), James 5:19,20 and Rom. 11:19-23 teach one can get saved again. God wants YOU back!!!!!! Remember that.
Regarding Heb. 6:4-6 please read this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/hebrews.htm
Regarding living holy read this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/abovesin.htm
Also read this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/newconverts.htm
Please consider getting our 801 page book refuting eternal security entitled, “The Believer’s Conditional Security.” There is MUCH in it that can help you better understand this salvation related subject. http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/whatsnew.htm
This book is the most exhaustive and comprehensive refutation to eternal security ever written.
Remember Gal. 6:8,9 is a SALVATION passage not a rewards passage. GOD BLESS YOU.
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(EMAIL) Thank you for being bold for Jesus Christ. No doubt you are correct. We are saved by Grace through Faith but we maintain through obedience to God\’s Word !!!! Not all that say Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven but those who do the will of the Father.
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
THANKS for the kind and encouraging words. We are in an intense war, but few realize it which makes it more intense for them.
Have you signed up for our weekly email teachings? http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/contact.htm
GOD BLESS YOU. Heb. 3:14.
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(EMAIL) I was told the flesh does not get saved by pastor. He said we cannot judge if believer dies in adultery if he goes to hell. Does jimmy Swaggat ministry teach a type of osas? I have read a large amount of your book. I do not believe one can sin and still be secure.
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
Your so-called “pastor” is a savage wolf in sheep’s clothing and you need to get away from him and the heretical fairytale he teaches—eternal security. THE SOONER THE BETTER FOR YOU!
It takes no judgment on our part to KNOW all “adulterers” are spiritually dead, even those previously saved. See Eph. 5:5-7; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; Rev. 21:8; etc. He told you what he did because he believes there are two types of adulterers, drunks, liars and criminals, etc.—one type is saved because of a past moment of faith and the other is unsaved because he was never regenerated. Such is so far from Scripture it is amazing. Please read 1 John 3:10; 1 John 2:3,4; etc. The Bible says we can KNOW the saved from the lost.
Have you read this article http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/newconverts.htm
Have you signed up for our weekly internet teachings? http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/contact.htm
GOD BLESS YOU. Heb. 3:14.
(EMAIL BACK) Dear sir. Thank you very much for answering me. I am married.so I cannot leave unless.my husband was led to. This is the third church we have been in last 4 years since leaving one we had attended for 13 and half years. Last night a young teen sang in a strapless dress. I found this totally unacceptable. Can people stay in church even when in disageement on certain issues.
(SECOND RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
Sorry for the church disappointments. It is a horrible day. Please talk with your husband regarding the Scriptural problems in that so-called “church.” It is to your own HURT to attend and support such a “church.”
The way people, especially women, dress in the congregations is too often appalling.
May God bless and help you (and us all). Rev. 21:1-8.
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(EMAIL) Thank you for your site. I am a charismatic Roman Catholic who is faithful to the catholic church. I listened to a few of your talks on Roman Catholicism and I had a question for you. You have stated several times that I will discover the truth by simply reading the new testement. But in Acts 8:30 and 31 it is stated, how can I understand the scriptures without someone to instrust me?
The other thing that I am curious about is that it is stated in the bible that \“All generations will call her blessed\” Is this a teaching that you pass on to your children and your church? That Mary is blessed and that you shoudl call her so and instruct your children to pass this on as well?
thank you for taking the time to read this and I pray that the words of John 16:13 would be made present amongst the body of Christ.
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
You asked about Acts 8:30,31:
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Several observations: (1) That particular unsaved man couldn’t understand a passage from Isa. 53. NOW because of the New Testament, which he didn’t have, we can easily understand passages like Isa. 53 which point to JESUS. (2) Other unsaved people came to salvation by verifying Paul’s teaching FOR THEMSELVES from the Scriptures. Acts 1710-12 says:
As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.
The Bereans were different from the Ethiopian eunuch. Furthermore, if you have to have someone teach you, WHO would that be? The Jehovah’s Witnesses wrongly use Acts 8:30,31 too to get people to accept what their own group teaches, that is, to make converts for the Watchtower.
We consider Mary “blessed,” but MANY other people were “blessed” too. Regarding Mary, JESUS never placed her in a supreme position over others! The Lord taught:
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:27,28)
In some charismatic Catholic churches they prophesy, “Thus saith Mary.” Is that the case in your church?
Jesus corrected the person [of Lk. 11:27] publicly for her wrong elevated view of Mary! Please know the Mary of Catholicism is NOT the Mary of the Bible. Please read this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/maryofbible.htm
MANY important articles are found here http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/catholic.htm
John 16:13 is not relevant here. That only refers to real Christians, which any person trusting in Mary, the sacraments and being a Catholic is excluded from.
Remember 2 Tim. 3:16,17.
GOD BLESS YOU.
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(EMAIL) I am one of those that “got saved” as a child and was taught the doctrine of eternal security. By the time I was 12, I was totally rebellious against the church and all it stood for. Being a christian just plain wasn’t any fun; and what made turning away so easy was the fact that no matter what I did, I was still saved; so I decided I would wait until I had experienced all the worldly pleasures I could, then ask God to forgive me when I got old, and he would have to. For the next 40 years, I became addicted to almost everything a person can be addicted to. Two years ago, I hit rock bottom, and truly repented. I’ve been clean ever since, except for my cigarette habit. Well, I am now 56 years old, and thankfully was given a good dose of the fear of the lord, which brought me back, this time for good. What scared me straight was reading books testimonies of many people who have been taken to heaven, and hell, and returned to tell about their revelations. What truly caused the truth to sink in was that their message from Jesus was always the same: that many people who think they are bound for heaven, but willfully living in sin, have been deceived, and will end up in hell because they refused to be obedient. I have spent my last 2 years reading my bible daily, and understanding that true salvation is not what I was taught; but in fact exactly what you have bee warning people about: ETERNAL SECURITY IS THE DOCTRINE OF DEMONS! My dad, an avid Charles Stanley follower, is so blind, that he WILL NOT EVEN CONSIDER THE OTHER SIDE. The problem is, that his wife reads the bible all the time too, but because of her upbringing, she too is blinded by the truth. . . . I have also fould out that although most Baptists claim their doctrines come straight from the early apostles; in fact, as you have mentioned, their doctrines basically have come from John Calvin, but they won’t admit this; and that OSAS has only become popular over the past hundred years or so. So what, if anything, do we do to convince these OSAS-ers to take another look at what Jesus and the apostles say about salvation, who goes to heaven, and who goes to hell? I am now looked at as perhaps even a cultist who is trying to destroy what most “Christians” know to be the truth, because I know that I was deceived as they were. Yes, you can believe as they do and still get to heaven, but “woe to anyone who causes one of these little ones to stumble...” THEY JUST PLAIN CAN’T SEE THAT THEY COULD BE ONE OF THESE THAT ARE WARNED BY JESUS, BY TEACHING OTHERS THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL SECURITY, WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT.
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
We rejoice with you that you now know eternal security is not from God and how it was a lethal snare for you growing up. You certainly are not alone. That doctrine has caused MILLIONS to go to hell while the preachers get rich and popular.
It is also great to read that you have been set free from various sin addictions. But why are cigarettes still a snare to your soul? Why don’t you repent of this? When my wife got saved she was instantly delivered from cigarettes.
Regarding ND experiences, we have an important article on this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/nde.htm
Please read it over.
Sorry to read about the adverse effect Charles Stanley has had on your family. He is the primary problem why eternal security is so popular. The good news regarding this is: We have a booklet entitled “The Gospel According To Charles Stanley,” which is an expose and critique of his strange teachings regarding eternal security and why they are wrong. This might be perfect for your family. https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/scbooks.htm
... To convince an eternal security proponent that he is wrong means to do “battle.” You will be fighting for truth and souls but it is certainly worth every bit of the struggle. People turn from THE HERESY for different reasons. Some will never change because they love sin and have too much to lose by changing to the disturbing truth. Examples are pastors, authors, seminary teachers, etc.
We have MUCH material on this very issue, including two books. Our 801 page book, “The Believer’s Conditional Security” is the most exhaustive, comprehensive and feared refutation to eternal security ever written. We also have various tracts and audio teachings that should help.
GOD BLESS YOU.
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(EMAIL) The number of the beast has been with us since the Babylonian empire; the name of the beast was invented in the sixteenth century; and the mark of the beast made its appearance more than two centuries ago!
Scholars, theologians, and laymen have been puzzled for more than 1900 years with the identity of the beast; and in this case he is the eighth beast, the son of perdition, and the one infamously called the anti-christ!
We are in the end-times, many believe, and this is why the Lord has finally revealed to his saints the identity of this adversary!
Perhaps the natural man will refuse to even consider the revelation! He may not be interested! Therefore, it may be pointless to speak plainly!...
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
The mark of the beast is NOT out yet as of August 2008. Do NOT be deceived and do NOT try to convince people it is. That will only create fears when there are plenty of problems without this. Check this out on how to recognize the mark of the beast http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/markofbeast.htm
Are you a real Christian? Please read this http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/salvationps.htm
GOD BLESS YOU.
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(EMAIL) I just finished your book on “The believers conditional security”, and I will tell you that it was a bit eye opening, and I’m a very critical reader.
My only concern is your dealing with sins that will prevent Christians from entering the Kingdom of God. Drunkenness, Lying, etc. are all included. However, as a TRUE literalist reader of scripture, I must disagree with you on your assumption. First, for a Christian to go out and get drunk will not keep them from the kingdom of heaven as it did not Noah or many others. . . .It is also possible for someone, who is a Christian, to have a genetic predisposition to alcohol, it ultimately is their responsibility to get themselves out through knowledge of the scripture, but if they are like me in the beginning, not knowing its a bad thing, I believe that’s another story.
If you set people up to live up to, in their own strength, to perfection, then you will ultimately have a bunch of people who stop trying, just like all of the ex-Catholics you see out there doing horrible things, they figure, “I can never live up to this standard, so why try”, and they are correct, except they got wrong doctrine. Keep in mind that teaching wrong theology is also a sin.
I am not sure where I stand on eternal security anymore. Thank You,
(RESPONSE) Greetings in Jesus’ name.
1 Cor. 6:9,10 has a list of types of sinners identified by their sin and one is the “drunkard.” That list, like Rev. 21:8 and Eph. 5:5-7, refers to people who commit certain sins. Those identified in these passages are NOT Christians. How can I be sure? It clearly says they will not inherit the kingdom or they will go to the lake of fire. So now the question is: how many times does a person have to commit adultery, murder, get drunk to be a Bible-defined adulterer, murderer or drunkard. The Biblical answer is ONCE. We have an article on this for your examination http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/onesin.htm
In the same breath please know all sins are not the same in their effect on our souls. Some sins are greater than others (Jn. 19:11). One type is eternal (Mk. 3:29), while others are not. Another type of sin is uniquely against our bodies, while other sins are outside our bodies (1 Cor. 6:18). 1 Jn. 5:16 declares there is a sin that does not lead to death while there is a sin that leads to death. Sins such as worry (Phil. 4:6), unthankfulness (Col. 2:7, 3:15; Lk. 17:11-18) and not being completely humble and gentle (Eph. 4:2) are not included in any of the lists of sins that will send people to the lake of fire, even if they were once saved. However, other sins certainly will send any person to hell if they die unrepentant, even a person who was once saved. (See 1 Cor. 6:9,10; Rev. 21:8; Gal. 5:19-21; Eph. 5:5,6; Jude 7; Rev. 22:15; etc.).
When a person gets saved he is delivered from sin addictions including drunkeness. Noah got drunk AFTER he was declared righteous, NOT before or during. NOWHERE does the Bible show Noah or any person is righteous in God’s eyes when in drunkenness. There are no Christian alcoholics [drunks]. Please do NOT be deceived.
GOD BLESS YOU. Heb. 3:14.