Evangelical Outreach, by Dan Corner, is a ministry that I respect which has written a complete refutation of OSAS, which is over 800 pages. I have not ordered their book, because my small list of verses on the subject is strong enough evidence for me, and causes enough problems for those believers of OSAS who encounter it. Unfortunately, in the last few years, Evangelical Outreach has either abandoned the pretribulation rapture, or are now undecided. They published a list of 10 reasons to doubt it at the link above, which I answer here:
1. A Bible Study refuting 10 attacks on the pretribulation rapture.
After 5 years, Dan Corner of evangelicaloutreach responded with a debate challenge.
After over 1 year, on January 9th, 2009, I responded with my opening statement:
Dan gave a first response:
And this is my response:
Thank you for responding.
You claim to want me to present my arguments so you can examine my arguments, point by point. OK. I accept. Please do. I've already given you a response point by point, and I await your many responses.
If you want to follow Biblical doctrine, you would have examined what I presented to you, as we are all commanded as follows:
to "try the spirits" (1 John 4:1),
to "give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine" (1 Timothy 4:13),
to "meditate" and carefully think about the Word of God (1 Timothy 4:15),
to "study to show thyself approved unto God" (2 Timothy 2:15),
to demonstrate your honour as you "search out a matter" (Prov 25:2),
to show your nobility as you "search the scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11)
Clearly, by your own words, you refuse to do any of these things on this topic, which is odd, given your capacity to research and refute "once saved always saved". That's ok for now, but you need to obey those commands to mature as a Christian.
You said, "Furthermore, to provide links to other writings (including my own) is not what this debate is about. Jason Hommel is to give the best evidence in a concise fashion here, which makes a text debate very important and convenient for the readers. We are not interested in reading various articles and sorting through them for answers. We are interested in something clear and concise for our text debate now so it can be examined and addressed point by point."
I did not link "various articles", for you to have to "sort through" for answers. I listed specific pages that addressed your specific concerns, point by point.
Also, please note, I don't bow to your commands, if they conflict with the commands of God. Keep that in mind as you continue reading.
Thank you for accusing me of using a "wordy smokescreen" to conceal my "lack of evidence" for my teaching. Such a false accusation continues to show who is right and who is wrong here. Most Bibles I've seen are about 1300 pages. My website is about 1000 pages of explanation of the evidence, and I've directed you to specific summaries and specific pages that address your specific concerns.
I think God did an excellent job of concealing the doctrine of the pre tribulation rapture from unbelievers who are not worthy, as the Bible says he would do, as follows:
Isaiah 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he [God] hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
My 1000 pages are full of evidence. You want it short and clear, but God said he would not be clear.
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
So, if you want answers, YOU WILL HAVE TO SEARCH THEM OUT, AND IT IS TO YOUR HONOR TO DO SO. You want me to steal your honor? So far, maybe I've only damaged your pride. I've already provided you with far more than you need.
You want God, working through me, to surrender to your terms, to provide you the doctrine "short and clear" when God said specifically in many places that He would not do that? Why don't you surrender to God's terms instead?
God tells us these things:
Mark 6:11 And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them."
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
I will surrender to God.
I have admonished you three times now, showing more patience than is Biblically advised.
First, I responded 6 years ago to ALL ten of your concerns, and I provided you a direct link, you know where to find it.
Second, I responded and refuted ALL of your points about the rapture in your opening commentary, yet you have the audacity and utter contempt for knowledge to claim that I presented no evidence?
We are on the internet here, posting our comments via web pages that take less than one second to click and read.
Yet you wrote: "We don’t want to read those pages. We don’t care what they say."
Only a willfully blind man could write such a thing.
Therefore, I must obey God, and stop attempting to open the eyes of a man who refuses to see, or cannot see because God himself may have blinded you for His own glory.
Since this is my last response, I will again address every argument you made quite easily, since none of them are new to me.
You speak of the signs of the sun, moon, and stars falling, but you don't seem to have any idea of what that Biblically symbolic language is talking about. It's Satan being cast out of heaven, and that must happen at the start of the tribulation. Read part 3 of my commentary on Matthew 24.
Last, you speak of Revelation 20's "first resurrection". The resurrection is like a harvest. A harvest happens in stages, not all at once. It begins when the first fruits begin to ripen, prior to the rest of the harvest. Jesus is that first fruits. Next, comes the main harvest. Finally, come the gleanings, after the harvest, when people are allowed to pick up the remains of the harvest at the edges of the field.
Likewise, I believe that the "first resurrection" takes place over time, and includes Jesus, the pretribulation rapture, the resurrection of the two witnesses, and those at the end of the tribulation who had been martyrs for refusing the mark of the beast. I have an article on that that goes into more detail and proof:
It's quite a popularly requested article at my site.
Oh yes, you said the Bible says nothing about the Feast of Trumpets. Well not if you word search those terms. Like the term "rapture", those are the English and Western World's terms for one of God's prophetic rehearsals, which is also known as "Rosh Hashanna", another term not found in the Bible. If you would like to know of the Biblical references to this Feast, this Holy Day, this "Holy Convocation", this "remembrance/memorial", you can find them here:
To invoke your interest in these things you obviously know nothing about, here is a sample:
[Num 29:1] And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.
[Lev 23:24] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
[Lev 23:25] Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Interestingly enough, I note that the Feast of Trumpets is the new moon, when the moon is dark. Furthermore, one of the themes of the Feast of Trumpest is concealment. I'll leave you with that to ponder.
Final issue. You claim: "For anyone to elevate the rapture to a salvation issue, like him, shows the deception they are in."
The pre tribulation rapture would certainly be a salvation. Salvation does not necessarily imply by rapture. To be saved means to be "saved, healed, or delivered". You can be saved now from many things by confessing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You can be saved from drugs, or idols, or witchcraft, or illness, or insanity or many other things.
You can be saved now, from the dreaded fear of having to go through the tribulation, if you only do a bit of study and research as we are commanded to do. You can come to the conclusions that I did with less than a tenth of the study that I did, since I already did the hard work of studying for 4 years and writing it out. You get to do the easy work of reading, and you get to do the fun study of reading the exact topics that you expressed an interest in.
On the other hand, if you refuse to let the blood of Jesus heal you from your errors, you will have no choice but to remain in your fear, as the Bible plainly teaches:
Hebrews 10:26-27 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Let me paraphrase. If you deliberately keep yourself ignorant, and deliberately close your eyes to the evidence presented to you that you have asked to see, then how could you possibly have any hope to believe anything other than having a fearful expectation that the tribulation will come first? As far as I can see, you are in a self-imposed tribulation even now.
The only way out is Jesus, the truth, the sword, the light, the love. You have to study it, because as my 7th grade teacher told me, "I can't open up the textbook and pour it into your head. You have to open your eyes, and do the reading yourself."
It's been a real honor for me to be able to serve you as the Lord had commanded me to, and I believe I have obeyed the Lord faithfully, by providing you a ready answer for what I believe. If you show any sign of turning away from your many errors, I may be able to try to help you further study this Biblical mystery.
For the complete debate click Jason Hommel vs. Dan Corner Rapture Debate.
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