Dan’s (Post-trib) (Opening Statement)
Jason’s (Pre-trib) Dan Corner vs. Jason Hommel Rapture Debate
Dan’s (Post-trib) Dan's First Response to Jason Hommel's Opening Statement
Jason’s (Pre-trib) Jason Hommel's Response To Dan
Dan’s (Post-trib) Dan Corner's Conclusion To The Pre or Post Trib Rapture Debate With Jason Hommel
Jason’s (Pre-trib) - - - Declined
Opening Statement (by Dan Corner)
I wasn’t always a Post-tribulation Christian as I am now. In fact, I never even heard the word rapture until around the time I left the Roman Catholic Church and started to go to a Bible-preaching church. With the help of both the pastor of that congregation and a popular author of that day, I became a staunch Pre-tribulation rapture proponent. I remained such for approximately 10 years, during which this subject often came up in discussions as I would be evangelizing on the sidewalks, street preaching or going door-to-door with the gospel. I knew the arguments for a Pre-trib rapture well, but always was unable to make it fit into the Lord’s return as cited in the Olivet Discourse (Mt. 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21).
While going to Bible school, because of a study and written paper on the Lord’s return that I did, my views were changed to Post-trib. To me now, it is crystal clear, as to when the Lord Jesus will be coming for the saints. I remember how stirred I was when I first came to the truth of this. I woke up around 2 or 3 AM and got out of bed to look at a few of the Scriptures again that I was pondering earlier that helped to convince me.
Because of accepting a Post-trib rapture, I believe I am now much more prepared than when I believed in a Pre-tribulation rapture. I had often heard the Pre-trib rapture taught that before the first nuclear bomb explodes, the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. (What a wonderful thought!) Obviously, such a message is one that many would love to believe. The problem is, such is not Scriptural—it is not the truth of God, but a prevalent false doctrine which could hurt Christians. To what degree exactly Christians will be hurt by the Pre-trib rapture can not, at this point be determined, but it could be massive! I believe it is highly possible that the Pre-trib rapture doctrine may be greatly instrumental in destroying the faith of many Christians when they are not raptured out of here before serious catastrophe strikes. Imagine the bewilderment and heart-crushing disappointment if you are a pre-trib rapture Christian who survives a nuclear attack. You would wonder, why didn’t the rapture happen. Then you might start to fatally doubt the Bible itself, thinking like some, that it is not true.
Let us also never forget that truth can be a very hard thing to accept. In fact, for some it is so offensive that it won’t be tolerated. Instead, people will try to force their wishful beliefs/desires to be the message of the Bible. For all who make this mistake, the sooner they realize that all they have is a myth, but not reality and fact, the better for them and their circle of influence.
Sadly, 2 Tim. 4:3,4 tells us a great number of teachers will be declaring things to appease their audiences, who turn away from truth. In other words, we are not living in a time when God’s truth is widely believed, but rejected. The devil uses false doctrine (doctrines of demons) to hurt and destroy because people behave based upon what they accept to be true.
If we are the last generation, there will be no rapture of the church until after the tribulation. This means Christians of that generation will face the Antichrist and will be subjected to the ultimate test of fidelity to the Lord Jesus, that is, receive the mark of the beast to buy and sell (and lose your salvation by taking the mark) or face decapitation or captivity. There will be no easy escape via a pre-trib rapture, as many have been dangerously taught.
Rough and uncertain days are coming. Christians must walk spiritually guarded at all times, because it is clearly possible to die spiritually (Rom. 8:13; Gal. 6:8,9; Mt. 10:22, 33; Luke 8:13; James 5:19,20; Rev. 14:9-12; etc.). If we miss God’s paradise kingdom, regardless the reason, we have made the greatest and most horrendous mistake that can be committed and one that will have eternal repercussions and regrets. We must, therefore, be very careful at all times for these are spiritually perilous days.
The Bible alone is to be the Christian’s doctrinal source (2 Tim. 3:16,17). And it is the Bible which confirms and defends a Post-trib rapture. The Pre-trib doctrine is similar to the teaching of eternal security (or once saved always saved), that is, Scriptural arguments are cited for its defense, but they are misused in one way or another. Also both declare pleasant and positive concepts.
When I believed a Pre-trib rapture, I was wrongly taught the tribulation was the wrath of God. Since Christians are delivered from the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10; etc.), then we must be delivered from the tribulation. It is a logical conclusion, but based upon the error that the wrath of God is the tribulation period. The truth is: the tribulation begins before the rapture and the second coming, which clearly occurs at the point of the last trumpet (1 Cor. 15:52). The last trumpet as shown in Revelation is the seventh trumpet. That same event, described as the last trumpet, coincides with several other events with each showing the timing of the Lord’s return for the saint to be after the tribulation period and after the Antichrist himself has been revealed and is in power. As disturbing as this might be, this is the Biblical record, like it or not.
Getting back to 1 Cor. 15:52, that passage is cited by the Pre-trib rapture teachers to refer to the very event they major in, the rapture, but somehow they overlook the precise timing:
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. (1 Cor 15:51-53)
QUESTION: What is the timing of the rapture in the bible, according to 1 Cor. 15:51-53? ANSWER: At the last trumpet.
NOTE: The rapture is also called a mystery in that same passage. Amazingly, the seventh trumpet in Revelation (which is also the last trumpet) is associated with a mystery:
But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. (Rev 10:7)
According to Scripture, the timing of the rapture (a mystery) occurs at the last trumpet (1 Cor. 15:52), which is both the seventh trumpet of Revelation and associated with a mystery at the seventh trumpet. But that is not all, there is much more proof, which supplements these facts.
The seventh trumpet (the last trumpet) will sound (Rev. 11:15), then two important events relevant to this issue happen: (a) God’s wrath comes and (b) the saints will be rewarded:
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever. And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great—and for destroying those who destroy the earth. (Rev 11:15-18)
NOTE: It is at this point in time, that the saints will be rewarded. QUESTION: Are the saints rewarded after the rapture? ANSWER: Yes. Then Jesus said to his host,
When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. (Luke 14:12-14)
The Lord Jesus taught in Luke 14:12-14, Christians will be rewarded at the resurrection of the righteous. The resurrection of the righteous is another way of describing the rapture when the righteous (or saints) also get their imperishable and immortal body. But Rev. 11:18 says the saints will be rewarded at the seventh trumpet, which is also the last trumpet. Hence, this is clear and over-lapping evidence to show a Post-tribulation rapture of the church.
That was Dan's Opening Statement and it was sent in September 2007. (More relevant evidence is yet upcoming!)
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