Greetings in Jesus' name.
I would like to say (as much under control as I can possibly be) that I am quite outraged about your views on the perseverance of the saints. We obviously do not believe in the same salvation, but I must express my belief and make known to you what you are ignorant of (that is, the Bible).You are correct that eternal security adherents and we do NOT have the same grace message. What we proclaim is Paul's gospel of grace, which has a conditional security attached to it. See 1 Cor. 15:2; Col. 1:22,23. In addition, it was Jesus himself and not a cultist, who told his own disciples that they must endure to the end of their lives for salvation (Mt. 10:22). See also Christ's words to the churches in Rev. 2:10,11.
First, what you have used in defense of your heresy--Oh, I mean theology, of course: Your thoughts refuse the Biblical view of God-initiated salvation, i.e., God saving man as oppossed to man's works saving man. Are you trying to say that if a man is saved and yet, the moment after his conversion, sees a nice-looking woman and lusts, then he immediately loses his salvation? If so, my confused friend, you and I are both hellbound with no help.We are saying what Jesus taught in Mat 5:28,29:
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed ADULTERY with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."The Lord taught lust in the heart is adultery. The Lord's apostles taught that those who die in the sin of adultery go to Hell (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Gal. 5:19-21; Rev. 21:8; etc.). Therefore, if any person lusts in their heart and dies in that condition, they go to Hell.
Because this is a wicked and adulterous generation, you assume that all people are filled with lust in their hearts. Yet all those who are will be thrown into hell. All those that enter the Kingdom of God will be free from this sin, as well as others cited in Rev. 21:8. One must repent of this adultery and be pure in heart to see God (Mt.5:8). Whom the Son sets free is free indeed (Jn. 8:36). The context bears out that it is freedom from the bondage to sin. Please read our article on lust and pornography at www.evangelicaloutreach.org/lust.htm
You are saying that a man's outward deeds determine whether he is saved or not! First, you must realise that not all who say that they are saved indeed are (Rev. 2:2, II Cor 11:13).Some who are saved will not remain saved. Jesus taught that some believe for a while, but in time of testing they fall away (Lk. 8:13). A sow can get washed and go back to her wallowing in the mud, and a dog can return to its vomit (2 Pet. 2:22). One's faith can get shipwrecked (1 Tim. 1:19,20).
----Okay, I'm listening to your Christian sermon and the sexually immoral thing is bothering me. Do you mean that if a Christian happens to have the specific sin of pornographic lust, then he loses his salvation??----Again, please believe what Jesus said in Mt. 5:28,29. He is either a liar, a lunatic or Lord. If he is Lord, his words can be believed. Remember, Jesus has the words of eternal life (Jn. 6:68).
What if I tell a lie to my parents about where I took the car last evening, then I am now out of the grasp of God by my own faltering? What kind of salvation is that??God himself from his own throne stated that "liars" will go to the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8). If you think lying and deception are not serious in God's sight, ponder Acts 5:1-10. Check this subject out with your own Bible concordance.
"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." -John 10:25-30Please read the above passage again. Notice it says Jesus' sheep "follow" him. It is continuous tense in the Greek. The context shows that the wonderful promise in verses 28,29 ONLY refers to those who continue to follow him. Only they will never perish. It doesn't say one is safe to sin. Furthermore, we see elsewhere that some of the Lord's very own followed him no more, Jn. 6:66.
How is it that you can blatently deny the very words of Christ and instead adopt twisted views of other scriptures speaking of unrighteous people (by the way, I, as a Christian, am righteous in the sight of God, and can never be unrighteous again) who cannot inherit the kingdom because they cannot be Christians!Please specifically explain what Scriptures we have adopted twisted views upon. Also, the prophet Ezekiel, speaking God's words, disagrees with you:
"If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done" (Ezek 33:13).
Your arguments make absolutely no sense whatsoever!This is because you are unable to understand due to unrepentant sin in your life.
Mat 13:15 "For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."Scripture is spiritually, not intellectually, discerned (1 Cor. 2:14; Dan. 12:10; Ezek. 12:2; etc.).
As to the subject of a "license to sin," you are dealing with Christian Liberty, a subject greatly dealt with by Paul. As Christians, we are set free from the bondage of sin's dominion (John 8:34-36, Rom. 6:14-23) and the desire of our hearts is to serve God in righteousness (Rom. 6:18, 22). However, this does not make us immune to sin! As my youth leader put it, "While we were once struggling to be free, we are now free to struggle."Ask your youth leader what Bible verse he bases his ideas upon. But first remind him of Col. 2:8. Paul's was a message of holiness, not Christian "liberty" as interpreted with eternal security in mind. Notice what he wrote to Titus about "grace":
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say 'NO' to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age" (Titus 2:11,12).Notice what he also wrote to the Roman Christians in 8:13,
"For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."We know Paul's was a life of holiness from such verses as 1 Thess. 2:10, not of a weak-willed man who vacillated between obedience and wickedness:
"You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed."
We were once slaves to sin, but now we are saved from that, and now desire to please him. However, we do fail often, as we are but humans.Rom 6:18 says,
"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."You left the part out about Christians being "slaves to righteousness." Also, remember:
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord" (Heb 12:14).
Okay, now for me to take the offensive side with scripture. Isaiah 43:1-3, God has called us by name, we are His, nothing can overcome His protecting and saving love. Jeremiah 32:10, God grants us fear of Him that we should not turn from Him; it is nothing we ourselves may muster up inside of us. John 3:36, the true believer has eternal life. John 5:24, the believer has eternal life and will not be judged. John 6:35-40, God has handed over to Christ those whom he has willed unto salvation, can God's plan for an individual's salvation be thwarted by a mere man? I should say not ... John 10:27-30, believers shall never perish. I have many more, but time restricts me. If I feel that this is worth more of my time, I may send more references for you. I pray that you see the light of God's scripture and that I may have spoken only that with which the Holy Spirit has graced my lips.It is only the "believer" that has salvation. Those that don't continue to believe will be condemned (John 3:18b; Rev. 21:8). As already mentioned, it is not a guarantee that one with a saving faith will continue to believe, as Jesus taught in Lk. 8:13 and other places.
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John 15:6 "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."According to true grace teaching, eternal life is also a HOPE (Titus 3:7), yet to be REAPED (Gal. 6:8,9) in the AGE TO COME (Mk. 10:30) for only the ones who PERSIST in doing GOOD (Rom. 2:7) and do not GROW WEARY and GIVE UP (Gal. 6:9).